May 17, 2021

Shamanism With Victoria And Kent Young

The Wolf And The Shepherd discuss the topic of Shamans and Shamansim with two Shamans, Victoria and Kent Young. Are Shamans medicine men, dark energy doctors, or something else? Topics covered include chakras, lucid dreaming, astral projection, the third eye, meditation, yoga, and Dr. Strange comics. During the show, Victoria teaches us how to do a couple of breathing exercises as well. 

Find out more about Victoria and Kent at and you can find them on Facebook and Instagram by searching Natural Path Energy.



get away from those sheep bollocks

you're listening to the wolf

and the shepherd podcast broadcasting

from fort

worth in the great state of texas now

get ready for this episode of the wolf

and the shepherd

welcome to this episode of the wolf and

the shepherd today we're going to be

talking about

shamanism or shamanism

and i'm about to ask our guests victoria

and kent

young is it shaman or shaman

well it depends on who you're talking to

our children

would say shamanism we pronounce it


so tomato tomato ah okay gotcha i


tristan was trying to play a cruel trick

on me when he was explaining

all this stuff that we were going to

talk about so i'm glad you clarified

that for me

well in england we called it uh shaman


when you say like shaman it just sounds

like a really posh shaman

so so now i'm posh that's i'll add that

to your list of adjectives that you use

to describe me right so vic ken

lovely to have you on the episode i know

the normal approach to

when we have guests on is we kind of

understand a little bit of the normal

backstory of life in how

somebody went down a particular path but

shamanism isn't one of those kind of

normal things

so can you write up until that day

you embarked on that journey kind of

give us a little bit about your

backgrounds because i know it wasn't

the kind of standard path that most

people might think would lead to this

yeah you bet and thanks so much we're

thrilled to be here with you guys

it's a kind of a wild ride how we ended

up here um

you know starting out in corporate

america both of us and and kent still is

in corporate america

for me it was you know i have always

since i was little been drawn to nature

and there were just things throughout my


just signs and things that happen now

that i look back that all

kind of led me to this place so for


when i was 15 i was part of a

just an extraordinary experience we grew

up in michigan

and i had the opportunity to take a

three-week trip with 36 other students

out west through the mountains of

colorado and the canyons of arizona the

grand canyon

and just experience nature and

and being a part of it all and immersed

in it to a whole new level

and it was during that trip we were

actually in the northeast part of


at uh what's now a national monument um

canyon de shea

and we were all just kind of

experiencing it and learning about

you know the history and everybody got

really quiet and

i promise you i heard the whispers

of the ancestors in the wind

and it was life-changing for me at 15


not something you really go around

talking about but it was an

extraordinary experience for me so that

happened at 15

and then um kent and i actually met

in college at michigan state ghost barn

and we were we had one day

where well why don't you tell a story

yeah i was just

i was extremely stressed i can't even

remember what it was that i was so

stressed about but i had gone down to

victoria's room and

i was laying on the ground and she had

put her hand over my heart

and and kind of in the middle of my

chest and was rubbing

and just trying to take my pain away

and all of a sudden out of nowhere

i see and feel this massive

tornado this green and gray tornado

that was pixelized that just came out of

my chest

and victoria felt the exact same thing

we i opened my eyes and i look at her

and we're like what the what was that

i promised we were not drinking nothing

like it was the middle of the day

we were we could not figure out what

happened so

then fast forward from that

up to our corporate jobs and you know we

graduated from michigan state we moved

out to colorado

and we moved yeah yeah and that's where

i think we started to

we even though something miraculous

happened and we knew

something miraculous happened that day

we never really looked into it

and before you know it all of a sudden

we have

children and life has changed it was

probably around 2014 2015 where we

really started to dive into all this

learning and all these books

yeah exactly and and it was about

meditation and it started out

ten percent happier was the first book

that that we had

really gotten into and and then all of a

sudden we went to peaceful warrior in

the code of the extraordinary mind

and then reinvent the body resurrect

your soul and

it kind of started too with the secret

remember the law of attraction

we were you know getting into all that

yeah but that's what really

allowed us to start thinking about

things way beyond us we had

we had done a church search and we were

trying to figure out what the right

religion was and were

were both christians and love our faith


we also realized that there was more

based on everything that we had been

researching and that what ended up

bringing us to

where victoria was invited to join a

what's called the wheel the medicine the

medicine wheel

and and that's where where you pick it

up yeah

yeah so it was about 2015 i think a dear

friend of ours had invited me

to to take this shamanic journey with

her and go through the medicine wheel

it's about a year and a half program and

and when she first approached me with it

i didn't know anything about shamanism

and therefore i

was fearful i wasn't sure how that would

relate to my religion i didn't want you


any sort of blasphemy or anything there

and i wanted to honor my god

and just really wasn't sure what that

entailed so it took me

about another two or three years of


and really learning um before i decided

i was ready

and then the coolest thing happened

because once i made that decision

then kent decided he was going to join

me so

why don't you tell them where you were

coming from there yeah i think

i had finally listened to deepak

chopra's reinvent the body resurrect the


and i really had thought back to uh her

father who i

greatly respect had had told us a long

time ago that

you're gonna grow and you're gonna

change and you have to make a decision

on if you're gonna grow together or a


and i thought that the going down the

shine route

and she had already you know looked at

reiki and everything from that

perspective which i loved the energy


i just hadn't practiced it but i

realized at that point that

i should probably go on the journey with

her so that

i can understand and i'm so blessed and

grateful that i did because

i wouldn't have been able to comprehend

what she had gone through with all of

her training

and the transformation that occurred for

both of us the evolution and everything

so that's kind of how we ended up so

kent is um

kent like i said he's still in corporate

america doing his amazing thing he's a

he's a leader a transformation

change leader there and and he also is

is beginning to coach clients who are

getting into this

line of work and he's phenomenal at that

and i have developed my own practice

of healing and meditation teaching

so which she is phenomenal thank you but

that's where we're at

wow so what would you describe

shamanism as to anybody listening

because obviously

you know you just told us you know the

history of your journey

to it that shamanism may encompass a

bunch of things which

at this point in time you don't


deal with and there may be some things

you do which are outside of

you know what would traditionally be

described as shamanism so

you know if you had to kind of give a

bullet point

explanation of what shaman is what would

you say

yeah great question um so just a basic


shamanism is the oldest spiritual


known to humankind it is believed to

date back a hundred thousand years or


and it was practiced around the world

the term shaman

actually is a tungus tribe it's from a

tungist tribe in siberia

and it literally translates to either

one who sees in the dark or healer

so just depending on how you look at

that translation it is a powerful


of healing it is a way of life and it's

based in a connection to nature

and to spirit so to all it is and there

are many many different

shamanic healing modalities again based

in that connection to nature and the


you've got journeying soul retrievals

heavy energy clearing

spirit flights illuminations plant

medicine ceremony there are so

many aspects to shamanism if you go to

so we are actually trained in the


shaman tradition and um

if you learn from a true peruvian shaman

and they've been doing this their entire

life so it is

it's extraordinary so i mean there's

obviously got to be an automatic push


from some areas because like here in the

western world

you know between a mix of i guess of

skeptics and

some evangelical christian you know


bringing up something like shamanism to

a stranger

you know comes with the inherent risk

that they're automatically

going to be forming some type of opinion

of you did you have any type of reaction

from friends or family like that

you know it's interesting um that's a

really great question

and what comes to my mind first is that

the biggest hurdles

for me and i think probably for you too

honey was

wrapping our minds around it you know i

told you it took

several years of research and really

sitting with this to make sure

i was comfortable because we do come

from a christian background and we are


and it's it's really important to

understand that

it is a spiritual practice it is not a

religion i

feel closer now to my god than ever

than ever before it's such a beautiful


spiritual practice and i feel so


not only to the divine but to mother

earth to pachamama as we call her

and to nature to and to others

around us that connection is just huge

so to answer your question the pushback

you know we live in a very conservative

christian area

so you know there is some

there's some question when you mention

it but our friends are dear enough and

they know our hearts

and they're open enough where when when

we you know we tell them

we talk about it they're super


and so is our family actually and

they're they're interested and they want


know more so would you would you agree

what do you think oh yeah totally agree

and i think you know

for us for victoria and i we we've been

on this journey for a long time and

we've always wanted to lead

our best lives and so we're constantly

trying to learn

and we follow dave asprey who's probably

the father of biohacking

and all types of other areas and

in the books that we mentioned above and

so from that perspective yes i think the

biggest hurdle was our own selves

in in terms of going through that and i

think that also helps

us in talking through it now it's it's

not a religion

it is a way of life and it is a way of

connecting with energy

and and so that still probably seems


ambiguous to folks but but that's

that's okay that's why we're continuing

on this journey and everyone has their

own journey and

and that's just what what everyone has

to go through i think

a key piece here is another shaman that

was out there don miguel

ruiz had written the four agreements and

then the fifth agreement

and the fifth agreement is about being

skeptical don't

believe everything you think

again don't believe everything you think

and it's about us deprogramming you know

we have a great foundation we have great


we had great upbringing but but it's


we're open we're open to to being able

to expand

and and realize that there's more than

what we were

raised believing agreed and i think too

us approaching it originally with that

fear we can totally empathize and relate

you know so somebody super you know

skeptical of it or what the heck is this

i think we can relate to that yeah and

that helps yep

yeah i don't think some of the language


has really tradition traditionally been

used to describe

you know shamanism has really helped how

it's been accepted

because even if you go to something like

the oxford english dictionary which

you know is a pretty well respected

source but it describes the shaman as

a person regarded as having access to

and influencing the world of good and

evil spirits

especially among some people of northern

asia and north america

typically such people enter a trance

state during a ritual

and practice divination and healing now

ken is that

normally what you do on a saturday


yeah that sounds exactly right yeah

they've kind of dove in a little bit

that you know there's you know a little

bit of half truth hidden in every uh

misrepresentation there but um right

it's uh yeah it's an unusual way when

you get people

you know who are curious or you get a

kid oh what's a shaman and they look it

up and they read that

it doesn't exactly seem to be going hand

in hand with a lot of

you know what you're taught in church

and you know christianity as a whole so

it automatically sets up

you know some type of prejudice

100 agree i you know i hear what you

just said and

i heard you say good and evil and trance

and ritual and divination and

you know i hear these words and those

those can be really scary especially

like you said if you're coming from a

god you know

fearing god and you know what is what is

all this

and you know shamans are

are said to have one foot in the

spiritual realm and movement in the

physical realm

right and so if we if we look at what

that truly says

as far as good medieval spirits these

are judgments in our training we don't

we don't judge the energy it simply is

it may feel lighter or heavier

and we're trained to do heavy energy

clearings but

the labeling energy is good or evil like

takes me and my mind directly to an

episode of supernatural

right and bad and here comes dean and

you know sam battling demons or

something and that's

that's not the energy medicine that we


so we work with vibrations and energies

that are lighter heavy

beneficial or non-beneficial and

and then you get into talking about a

trance and the images that that you know

you know comes up with in your mind it's

crazy it's a trance can simply be

a meditative state right or a prayer


so if i'm we're talking about trances

and rituals like

this could seriously be the ritual where

i before a session before i meet with a


i go into a meditative prayer state

and i set the intention for our session

and i clear the face of any

non-beneficial energy and bring in the

love and light

of the healing divine and so this is the

the trance and the ritual you know and

then divination you know what

what we do is we obtain information now

there are people who are really skilled

at channeling information and

like so for me i i do occasionally

receive information during a session

clairvoyantly or clear cognizantly which

is seeing or knowing the information but

i receive most of my information clear

sentiently so this is where i feel it in

my body

so as a healer i may have a client who

comes to me

with anxiety and i can feel i physically

feel the tightness in my chest

and then so that's where i'm guided to


and release and then perhaps i feel a

pain in my neck or my shoulders

and that's where they've been storing

all this tension and stress and energy

so i'm led to to work there one thing i

want to be clear on

is that everybody can do this

everybody can do this this is not some

amazing special power that we were born


we are all born with this ability to

sense this information

and many believe that when we are born

and when we're young we're closer to the


and we're able to sense this information

and that as we grow

we forget and it's kind of trained out

of us

so it's really about relearning these


and developing our intuition and then


so honoring our intuition trusting it

being aware and noticing that part of

the path

right now you did mention uh human

energy and

energy healing can you kind of go a

little bit

deeper into that just because now is

that actually the same thing as what


or reiki is great questions yeah it is

and so kind of the idea behind

our our energy healing is that we all


subtle energy bodies it's also called

luminous energy fields

our auras you may have heard it call

that we all have these energy fields

surrounding us

and as as shamans or reiki practitioners

we work with this subtle energy body and

this is

not woo this is actually measured

scientifically it's proven

it exists and then many believe that all


in the body actually start as diseases

in this subtle energy field so for


there could be trapped emotions from a

childhood trauma

that manifests many many years later in


as a cancer or another disease in the

body so

then bring in reiki reiki is a

another healing modality that uses

gentle hands-on healing or distant


you can it's both they're both equally


effective so you connect

in with the same beautiful healing

divine force energy

but where shamanism can be

fierce and confrontational like in your

face it

kind of forces you to face things head

on it can be right

it also incorporates many more


than the hands-on healing reiki is

simply a

gentle beautiful healing method

same energy just a different path and

both are equally as powerful

and then one thing i might add to that

what i find very interesting

is the mind body and spirit to boil it

down a little bit more

i think from a mind body spirit

perspective there

is energy and that is related to your


and so many times in those three areas

we focus on maybe one

maybe maybe zero maybe two

of those areas but are you really

keeping track of

all three of them and that's what's most

important i think as we

learn so much about shamanism is being

able to balance and focus

on the mind the body and the spirit and

trying to keep

each of them in check and in congruency

you know connected and balanced i think

that's also another way of being able to

just think about it isn't that mind body

spirit great point obviously

you mentioned earlier about energy is

neither good nor bad it's just

how it's used are there people who

do use it negatively i mean i hate to

use the uh

term psychic vampire people who can

actually kind of suck your

will to live out of you almost just

being around them

are there people who kind of practice

the opposite to the good natured

you know type of stuff like shamanism

who can

you know completely on a more

destructive type path

yeah you bet from from what we


we happen to not know anyone but there

are people out there that do

take a different approach we were


and we uh work only in the light

and only in true christ consciousness

and there are others who will take a

different path who will venture down

um the darker side of things and it's

all based

this this work and if anybody is

looking for a practitioner it's all

based in integrity

and intention and just make sure you

find a practitioner that is

heart-centered and you know you can

trust and unfortunately there are a lot

of weapons out there

and i use weapons very loosely but i


there's so many different things that


can leverage from actual weapons

to energy and and so yes

unfortunately if you do have people that

are out to hurt others this is

one way of being able to do it uh

but that's also why it's critical for

you to be able to understand

how to just manage your own energy so

that you can ward off and protect

yourself from those that

might try to do harm even even a simple


our thoughts and our words can be can be

used as weapons like that those are

energetic those are energy forms and

cursing someone

you know it's they they have power

behind them so

great point about about learning to

manage that and protect yourself

absolutely so one area i've been

interested in for a number of years

is chakras and particularly the third


but i've never really kind of understood

how traditionally

the chakras have been important to you

know eastern religions

eastern medicine could you give a basic

overview really of what

chakras are and how they can be used


so chakras are

vortexes of energy in our body and

typically we talk about seven main

chakras and these are

energy centers in our body they align

along the spine

and they correspond to major nerve

centers in the body these two are

scientifically proven

so they start from the base of the spine

and they go up to the crown of the head

and then chakras two through our second

through our sixth

chakra extend out the front and the back

of the body so i'm trying to

draw a little bit of a picture here for

you now this energy in these chakras is


our vital vital life force energy

and we as healers work with the chakras


clear and balance them they can

store things like thoughts feelings

emotions experiences

trauma so we work to clear those and to

bring those into balance

which by the way you can also learn to

sense and to do by yourself

so the first if we if we take a look at

each of the chakras i'll

kind of explain just a little bit about

them and

where they're located in the body so you

can get an idea and as i'm talking you

can even put your hand over these areas

and and see if you can sense them see if

you can feel you might

feel a little heat you might feel

tingling sensation or swirling sensation

um so the first three chakras deal with

earthly physical matters we have our

first chakra which is our root chakra it

is typically associated with

the color red and it's located in our

pelvis so if we imagine a

vortex coming down from our tailbone

or our pelvis and pointing toward the


that is our root chakra this deals with


survival grounding and um and

nourishment from the earth

our second chakra is our sacral chakra

located in the area excuse me of the


typically associated with the color

orange so if you put your hand just

under your belly button um you will

be over your sacral chakra and this has

to do with emotions

creativity and sexuality and again these

are just super basic

overview third chakra is our solar

plexus and it is located

in the area right under our rib cage

typically yellow

in color it symbolizes intellect

personal power and will and then we have

our fourth chakra

and our fourth chakra is said to serve

as a bridge between our body mind

emotions and spirits and that is our

heart chakra so it's located right over

our hearts

typically green in color it's connected

to love

relating and compassion the last three


deal with higher consciousness and


so next moving up our body we have our

fifth chakra that is our throat chakra

typically blue in color and located

guess where right over our throat and it

deals with self-expression

speaking our truth and creative

expression and communication

moving on up we have our third eye


which is our sixth chakra it's typically

purple or deep

indigo in color located in the middle of

our forehead

just above our eyebrows and evokes


extra sensory perception and inner


and finally we have our seventh chakra

which is our crown chakra

it is typically white it's sometimes


located at the very top of our head and

our crown chakra relates to spiritual


and consciousness now in shamanism

and specifically our peruvian lineage we

also work with an

eighth main chakra called the inca

and it's located directly over our head


typically white or gold and white in

color it's associated with

our higher self and direct connection to

the divine

okay now i've heard of the phrase um


chakras now does that happen because


just concentrate on one or two of the

chakras or

is that balancing something you have to

continually do

you know if you follow in this kind of

path because our chakras

store thoughts feelings emotions

experiences trauma

you know they pick up things they pick

up energy we take energy in through them

and information into our chakras

and so i mean throughout the day they

can get on balance so if you're feeling


you know one may be heavy one may be

light one maybe

they spin like a vortex one may be

spinning slower

and so you know you may feel for example

if you're trying to speak and your your

words are catching and you just can't

get the words your throat chakra

literally may need to be cleared

and it's simply a matter of setting the

intention of pulling that information

out of your chakra chakras typically

spin clockwise

and so if we if we spin our hands over

our chakras counterclockwise

that is an intention of clearing that

chakra yeah and they start

when we work with the chakras you

typically want to start at the base

and work up so we're starting at your

root chakra working up

and you can balance them the same way

just make sure they're all all cleared


and balanced so they all feel similar

yeah now i know with them

the third eye you know connected to the

pineal gland

um there are certain frequencies and

tones i'm

not sure if it's like 9 33 uh whatever


it um it's supposed to decalcify the

pineal gland and therefore

you know help you activate the third eye


a frequency is used in you know getting

the other chakras

kind of into action or

yes they are and i will tell you i am


i'm just starting to dive into this area


very interested in it as well so

like you said about the panel glands

those frequencies are used to heal that

and i don't have a whole lot more

information to offer because i am

literally just starting to dive into

that but i'm also starting to use some

different frequencies during my

during my healing sessions as well which

is pretty cool wow yeah and i would add

really quick to that one is that

you know from a pineal gland perspective

and thinking about the third eye

one of the one of the things that a lot

of people try to do

is open that up so that they can really


very lucid uh dreams and and going

through that

through that meditation at a wakeful

state but in a completely different

realm in the grand scheme of things

i believe that dr joe dispenza and all

the work that he's done related to brain


and the transition through the beta the

alpha the theta and getting into the

delta waves

to get into that type of state where you

are tapping into that pineal gland

and he does it through practice of

breathing meditation and kegel exercises

to really get

the proper juices flowing through your

spine to unlock

and decalcify your pineal gland

in the grand scheme of things but again

that's kind of an advanced

process and many people are trying to do

that but if you do want to look into

that and understand a little bit more

i think that dr joe dispenza again is a


great resource in that area okay now

could you explain the concept of


um i'd heard that a number of times

before i kind of

really took the time to read about it

but it said um

that it's similar to astral projection

now are those two

the same things or was that just nowhere

near the truth

actually they're a little bit different

shamanic journeying

um it has been used through all


cultures and it allows the shaman

to go in or the person who's who's going

and doing the journey

to go in and connect with different

spirit helper helpers

and typically you will set some sort of

intention or have a reason for taking a


and when we journey shamanically we go


either the lower world the middle world

or the upper world

so essentially it's a guided meditation

that you go on

and you and then they allow you time for

this journey to obtain

this information or maybe release

something that needs to be released

have some sort of a healing while you're

on this journey

um but much more of a guided meditation

with intention i would say

would you agree yeah absolutely astral

projections or astral travel

is is more of an intentional out-of-body


it's similar to lucid dreaming and it is

as opposed to a near-death experience


where let's say you might hover over

your body and then travel to another

realm after a traumatic experience

astral travel is intentional it's where

you intend for your subtle energy body

to leave your physical body and travel

typically to different planes or

dimensions this can really be getting

into some deep stuff

it's a little bit more difficult to wrap

your head around but

i love the example you use do you want

to share that yeah i think

actually a great example is the doctor


the marvel comic and the movie itself


in dr strange he is trying to seek a way

to heal himself and he goes and finds

the great one

and the great one jars him gives him a

little bump in the chest to allow him to

to actually break his astral projection

or his

[ __ ] yeah body out of his

actual physical body and he goes on that

very lucid dream that has a lot of


or fractals and all of that different


which is theoretically a very

like version of what one might go


if they go on an actual projection so i

i think that's actually a good way of

being able to

see how cinematically they've they've

done it to kind of

replicate what it might be like exactly

okay now you've mentioned meditation

quite a few times

how much does yoga and meditation play a

part in your everyday life in terms of

how you prepare for the day

how you sum up the day funny when you

ask that because

i have been on a quest now for probably

10 years

to try to like yoga

i want to like yoga so badly and

i yes it's i'm so it's an opportunity

for me i'm still working on it

and i know i need it from a physical

perspective for the stretching i've

actually started a new program where i'm

at least doing 10 minutes a day

but it's very uncomfortable for me and i

have never actually been taught

the spiritual aspect of yoga to really

appreciate it it's just a bunch of

really uncomfortable positions for me

but i'm trying

so as far as the meditation piece

that has been completely pivotal in our


it's totally transformational um we

started regularly meditating mindfulness


in 2017 i think is when we finish

when i started okay between 2015 and

2017 and that in that time

frame we started every day

and it took me from

i i had debilitating anxiety and


and brought me out of that without any

other medication

and it is a pivotal part of our life

every day we both have and you can speak

for for your meditation practice but

you know i know i start my day out with

some breath work

because breath work is absolutely

foundational to a meditation practice so

i work with some breath work

and then i do some guided meditation and

mindfulness practice

and the other piece i do is meditation

has become

just integrated right into our life so

throughout the day something might


and i have different breast techniques

that i'll use

either i've got a couple that i use that

want to wake me up

if i'm getting tired and another one if

i'm starting to get anxious about


you know calm me right down there's all

sorts of different techniques we can use

so it's awesome to integrate it right

into our lives

and i would say just from a meditation

perspective i think it is critical

because what you're trying to do

from a shaman perspective or even just

thinking about

mind body and spirit again is staying in


and again i had mentioned the very first

book that i had

listened to was ten percent happier by

dan harris

and it was a really good one because it

was very skeptical view

and so it was interesting to see what he

was thinking about in the journey

that he went through and he said he was

ten percent happier as i've gone through

this process

and i look back at it now after five six


i will say i'm 200 happier like

it's crazy from my perspective because

in my line of work

as a leader of major programs

and transformation it's it's very


that in the past i always thought there

was this illusion of control

and there is no control and that's

i think what allowed me to go through a

major transition and allow me

to just simply love the

ambiguity of life and everything that's

coming through

is an opportunity to get better that's

the fun part from my perspective

and then all of a sudden those things

that pop up that you think

might be horrible it's not it's just an


and and i think from that perspective it

has allowed me

to not just be again 10 happier but

way way happier in my life because i


have the stresses the same stresses that


that i once had it totally changes the

neural pathways in your brain and your


it's amazing now in terms of breathing

exercises most people think of oh

take a deep breath but surely there must

be some variants on that and probably

you know something you can give in this

example of which you know some of our

listeners might be able to benefit

from because they need to calm down some

of them

awesome i would love to actually i in

fact i mentioned two of them that are my


and do you guys want me to share those

yeah yeah

okay cool you guys ready to do my guinea

pigs and try them

one of us will just in case it goes


one of us has to be alive to hit the

buttons at the end of the show

okay okay so so so i mentioned

um i use one of my favorites is a

is a breathing technique that and by the

way you mentioned deep breathing is very

important to breathe down into your


when you're meditating okay you can get

that full breath but

this breath technique actually is if you

say it's the middle of the afternoon

and you're in that slump and by the way

if there's anybody listening to this

that might be driving i do not recommend

you do this

um these breathing techniques when

you're first starting out can make you a

little bit light-headed

so probably sitting down would be best

not driving or operating heavy machinery

um so this the first one is called

stimulating breasts

or bellows breasts you might hear it and

in the shamanic world we call it fire


so the way you do it super easy

you simply breathe in and out through

the nose rapidly

trying for three in and out cycles per


again this is just through the nose and

this is stimulating our sympathetic


so our sympathetic nervous system so

when you're first starting out you you

don't want to go past about 15 seconds

um and if you're not able to go the

first the full 15 seconds don't worry

about it just do what works for you

and as you progress with this breath

don't go past about a minute without

working with a practitioner so that's

about the limit so between 15 seconds

and a minute so if you guys are up for


we will try about 15 seconds okay

okay and what it sounds like is is this


that sound good yep okay

all right so if you're ready so i just

would recommend maybe sitting up

straight feet on the floor

and if you're comfortable you're welcome

to close your eyes and

ken do you want to do it if i if i

count awesome so i'm going to count


and so when you guys are ready you can

go ahead and begin

okay and i usually breathe in about

two-thirds breath

and then go ahead and do the oscillating

oh you're getting fancy now okay awesome

all right

ready go

good big breath in and out

okay did you guys try it yeah i think i

might need to blow my nose now


hopefully you're feeling warm stimulated

you know energetic ready to go right

into that

so what's the second one okay

yes okay so this one

actually is um i call it the

tranquilizer breath

and if anybody is dealing with

any sort of anxiety or depression i

highly recommend

dr weil teaches this one and if you go

out to dr weil's website i think it's dr

and look up the 478 breath he'll

he has a little video and he teaches you

how to do this it is

it's life-changing it's made all the

difference for me

he recommends actually practicing it

first thing in the morning when you get

up and right before bed

it takes less than a minute or two super


and then he says after about two months

of regular practice

you will notice very significant changes

in physiology

and it will get to the point where you

can start using it then if you have an

anxious moment during the day you can

use this breath and it

calms you right down that's why i call

it the tranquilizer breath

so the way you do this and it i mean it

is proven to lower heart rate blood


improve digestion and then it's super

great with anxiety

so the basic technique is

place your tongue on the roof of your


behind your teeth and this is a yogurt

breathing technique

and it completes an energy circuit so he

wants you to place your tongue up there

right behind your teeth

on the roof of your mouth you're going

to inhale for four

counts through the nose and i want to

emphasize these are counts these are not


so it's whatever count works for you and

as you

as you practice this you'll be able to

go longer counts

so it's an inhale for four counts it's a

hold for seven

and it's an exhale for eight and

when you exhale you exhale through the


with a whoosh sound so you're forcefully

pushing that air out through your first


so it's a okay

okay again i would not recommend this if

one is driving or operating any heavy

machinery so

you guys want to try this one awesome

okay let's do let's do two rounds of

this and see how you feel

okay so i'm gonna count and would you do

the breathing

yep awesome okay so again just make sure

you're comfortable

seated feet on the floor straight back

and feel free to close your eyes if

you'd like so

yep tongue on the roof of your mouth

you're breathing in through the nose

so ready yep okay so

inhale two three four

hold two three four five

six seven exhale two three

four five six seven eight

inhale two three four hold

two three four five six

seven exhale two three four

five six seven eight

good you can take a deep breath okay

okay how'd that feel any better uh

yeah yeah it's kind of hard to keep up

with that count though

oh was it yeah well i

it's just like not quite knowing when

you were going to switch i was uh you

know getting

getting the hang of holding my breath

and then getting the hang of letting my

breath go but

oh okay you know you just switching

direction quickly there

um it now last week

sorry um last week we had a friend of

ours come on the show

maedivi uh she also runs a podcast

and she covered a few things

um you know when we weren't recording

which kind of have a

you know quite a strong uh shamanic

connection and one of the things we did

talk about was plant medicine

and you know i'm a very firm believer


you know like it says in the bible about

god gave us a plan

you know basically for every ailment


you know nature has provided us with the

cures for many things which

officially you know we're still trying

to cure

now given another name for shaymin is a

medicine man

can you tell us the basics of plant

medicine and

you know perhaps how it relates to

prevention and cure

and maybe give us some examples yeah and

i think and by the way

that was an awesome uh podcast oh we

we really enjoyed that one as well and

and you're correct

it like you said in the bible it


there is a plant for every ailment and

that is very true there are thousands

and thousands of different plants and

different ways to be able to pull that

medicine together

in the shaman and the peruvian shaman

there is really

seven main plant medicines and

there's the one that probably gets the

most notoriety

and and is probably the most famous is

the grandmother spirit

named ayahuasca and

she is she is said to be the mother


of nature that provides guidance and

healing to those that work with her

and it's absolutely true for those that

go through that

that process again when you think about


there's herbs there's tinctures there's

essential oils

there are a ton of different things and

even mae mentions

that you know she when she was a kid

that her mother said

oh you got to burn just use that aloe

plant and that's that's a perfect

example there are

all sorts of different medicines that

you can use it's amazing what a


can be used for it's truly phenomenal


victoria and i we don't necessarily work

in the plant medicine

as deeply as some others but there are

some people that are

phenomenal shamans from a plant medicine

perspective that can

really usher you through amazing events

and experiences

with different types of plant medicines

along with

not just those the excellent experience

but that prevention and the curing

depending on what type of ailments you

may be dealing with

yeah and and i would add a couple of

things to that as well that was that was


you can also as a shaman work with the


of that plant medicine and not

necessarily the physical plant itself

so that's another aspect that shamans

work with the plant medicine

other way and and the other thing is too

kat mentioned the ayahuasca and i know

it's kind of becoming a big deal and

popular and all this but this medicine

is sacred and it is not to be taken


literally we work with some plant and


you know folks that we've spoken with

and that are

world renowned and they will not

use this or practice ceremony outside of

the amazon with it

so just to be careful make sure if it's

something that

you know it's a path that you wanted to

try to go down that

you're working with the shamans that you


again that are working in integrity and

holding that space for you

and guiding you through that that

experience because it can be

pretty profound right yeah i've heard

that doesn't it make

most people vomit violently

violently all night long yeah yeah

yeah i'd say that's not to be taken too


exactly right now are there any parts of

the shamanic journey that you'd still


you know to be very much novices i know

you mentioned you know the chakras


but you know surely there are some

things which you can grasp very quickly

but you can build upon those layers of

knowledge and make that experience even


uh profound i guess so

what would you say you feel very much

kind of like

way out of your depth

oh that's a great question

i know my answer what do you think wow

yeah that that is that is a big question

i think one

one of the things that is very

interesting from my perspective is once

you start to know something you realize

how much you don't know

that is what's so phenomenal about this

journey is as you start to learn

and you start to grasp a little bit more

of each of those different

areas you start to realize just how much


expansive it is than what our minds can

possibly hold

so when you think about it there's a lot

that we

we definitely want to learn a ton more


and i think the other aspect for me is


i went through the process and and


um the the medicine wheel with victoria

because i wanted to grow with her and it

has been a phenomenal journey now i

didn't go into it

expecting to practice it afterwards what

i did find

my calling to be is to work with those

that are trying to stand up their

business and trying to help them work

through it

so from from that perspective there is a

massive amount that i still want to


and and would love to be able to go

through that process but

for those that are actually practicing

i'll turn it over to victoria and and

see what she wants uh

yeah yeah well and that's that's what i

was gonna say right

i mean the more we know the more we know

we don't know and it is

it's so complex and astronomical all

there is to know

and i mean if you think about it with

the traditional cultures they spend

their entire lives

in this work learning this um

like you said you know experiencing it

that's that's the best way to learn is

to get in there and experience so so

my niche has has really been

towards the energy healing using the

reiki using the

shamanic energy healing techniques um

but i am so humbled by the work it is

i learned something new every single


no experience is ever the same

it is so extraordinary and i feel like i

have a lifetime

of knowledge to still learn to gain

and i you know i love the work and i

love to learn

so you know keep it coming but

boy there's a lot you know a lot to that


right now have um either of you ever

come across

anything kind of a little bit dark


energy wise or spiritual wise you know

in anything you've done because

like with anything involving

spirituality it should really come with

a warning label because people start

you know looking for certain experiences


diving into things head first without

really kind of

you know weighing up the consequences of

doing things so can

you know certain people as we spoke of


use dark energy to actually

you know meet you at a place where

you're you know trying to use good


yeah and like you said we you know we

kind of touched on this a little bit

earlier with the heavy energy and we try

not to

you know there's there's no judgment

it's it's either beneficial or


right yeah energies that we work with

again it's all based in integrity and


and there are certainly people who will

take it there

um i i would not recommend

especially if the intention was

poor you know sitting down at a ouija

board or any anything like that that


that could just invite um energies that

just aren't necessarily beneficial it is


sacred it's not to be taken lightly and

if you know if somebody wanted to

explore this i would

i would reach out to a trusted source

find mentors find

elders in that tradition who can teach

you the right way

to do things would you agree yeah and i

think i would add to it as well

in terms of what i have found very


in this in this path is that there are

some people that are way more

empathic than others and those that are

very empathic those that

that really take on other people's

energy and

like you said the vampire earlier can

just drain you

there's there is definitely that aspect

and if you are

known to be very sensitive

to everyone else's energy and you feel

it when you go to

a store a grocery store and you feel

like you picked up a whole bunch of crap

when you walked in there that's where i

think it's so critical

to figure out how to learn how to manage

your energy

and and that's one of the cool things

that victoria offers

is something that allows you to be able

to manage your energy field

even put up protection shields that will

allow you to protect yourself

especially for those that are the most

vulnerable in terms of those

empathic uh folks that are out there and

so and that's okay

empathic is a beautiful thing because it

allows you to connect

with so many things but it also means

that sometimes you take on

a bunch of things that you don't

necessarily want to so

it would just be advice yes there are

people out there that don't even mean

to necessarily do that and there's some

that do

and and so being able to just protect

yourself and then recognize when

something comes up and you feel like you

have picked something up

being able to to clear that and

and be able to walk right through it is

is i think

is this something you wish you'd have

found out earlier on in life or do you

think the time

was kind of perfect for where you were

at and you probably needed to be at that

particular point

otherwise you maybe wouldn't have

accepted or appreciated it

yeah i think in this situation

it happens exactly how it needs to

happen and

obviously if i think to myself sure i'd

love to have the knowledge

as a 20 year old that i have right now

but i wouldn't have understood my life

like i thought

yeah like i wasn't ready for that that's

just like remember back in college i

tried to read

deepak's yeah seven laws of spiritual


it was like reading a foreign language

and yet now

he's one of our favorite teachers yeah

and spiritual guys you know

gurus so um i i think you're exactly

right i think it's

it if there's anything we've learned

through this it's divine timing

and everything happens as it needs to

your past unfolds

in front of you as it needs to when the

pupil is ready

yeah the teacher will arrive i will

appear you got it

okay now before we kind of finish

tonight i did want to give you both the


um you know to reach out to any of the

listeners who may have any further

questions for you um

also i know you have a bunch of stuff

surrounding this topic in your life

which i want to give you

you know an opportunity to explain but

yeah if you want to give out any

information how people can get in touch

with you

yeah thank you so so we have a website

so they can they can check us out there

and that will also link us to

link them to our facebook instagram

i also have just started an insight

timer page so if anybody is interested

in learning a little bit more about

meditation i've got some free

meditations out

on the insight timer app and you can

access those from there as well

if you are interested in any sort of


or maybe ready to go down this path and

and start some healing work that is temp


and you can reach him through our

website as well and

otherwise healing meditation

or if you just need some guidance and

are interested in learning more

please feel free to reach out to us and

i am going to be offering

some online meditation courses

and some online was talking about the

energy management and how important that

is some

basic energy management classes as well

coming up

um this summer so those will be

those will be coming and and by the way

i don't know if we've mentioned

but all of this work it can be done

distantly everything is energy

and therefore it's all it's it's pretty

profound what can happen

um with our distant work okay awesome

well guys thank you so much for coming

on the show today

really appreciate having you on it was a

privilege and that will end today's

episode of the wolf and the shepherd and

we will catch you on the next one

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