Episode 46 - Interview With Scott "Junior" Ereckson

welcome to this episode of the wolf and

the shepherd today

with us we have scott junior erickson

junior glad you could join us thanks for

having me max happy new years guys

hey happy new year to you it's good to

have 2020 over with

let's just be honest i mean what a a

crazy year that was so uh

glad that's all behind us and now we can

look forward to 2021.

junior you've got an interesting back

story

as far as uh what has happened

throughout your life and that's kind of

what we're here to talk about

walk us through your back story for for

those folks out there that don't know

who you are and everything

uh tell us tell us a little bit about

yourself my name is scott jr erickson

i'm a four-time international president

for the

mongols motorcycle club i'm retired i

was active 32 years

wrote a couple of books and now i just

live a peaceful life

yeah i'm sure much more peaceful than

back then

so uh going into your back story

how old were you when you first got a

motorcycle

i was 19 19 years old when i got my

first bike

what kind of bike was it that was a 1978

and a half

super glide ah harley davidson for those

that don't know

was that your first motorcycle did you

do any like dirt biking anything like

that

no i had a i had a nova mini bike

it was my first bike when i was like uh

like seven

and then uh i got when i was 14 i had a

a dirt bike i got a dirt bike riding and

i just had a

had a thing for motorcycles yeah so

would you say the

the dirt bike thing kind of helped you

get into getting on the

the road bike and like the harley world

or did you just i don't know if it got

me started on the hardy world but it

taught me how to ride a motorcycle which

was uh the first

part of the story you know i thought we

gotta shift gears and pull the clutch

so yeah exactly you know that's

that's half the battle right that's

right so you

get this harley and you're 19 years old

i'm i'm guessing uh you saved up money

for it you

bought it used or corrected you know

actually uh

that's a funny story because uh my dad

had

actually uh went in a house with me my

dad my dad said if you can get

half the money he goes i'll pay the

other half of the money okay so my

father

actually uh forked up half the bread and

i had shaved half the bread myself

all right and so so you buy the bike

you're riding around and something

happened to you that made you say hey

there there's a little more to this than

just

riding a motorcycle around and you know

shining the bike up and

i got to do i got to do more what what

was that moment where you said

you know there there's more to life than

just riding this up and down the road or

back and forth to work well let me tell

you my first experience

uh where i really i think i really got

punched in the job with this biker thing

was uh i was probably about maybe

six years old and at the time we were

living in san diego

well no actually when i was six we were

still in orange county at the time

and i was with my mother in the car we

got an intersection

and a hell's angel pulled up next to us

and i was just i was looking at this guy

with the hell's angel and i was looking

out the window like i said i was

probably six or seven years old enough i

had my face pinned against the windows

staring at this guy and i remember my

mom reaching over

slapping me telling me not to stare and

i think that was the first time i said

wow look at this man it was uh

it was the closest thing to a a real

cowboy in the out west i mean this guy

was

had leathers on it was was dirty looks

like he'd been on the range for

for six months and i mean this was this

was the real thing i i was just amazed

at that young age so you see this you're

six years old

and then you you go on and now you're

around 19 years old yeah i'm 19

and uh you talk your dad into going in

halfers on a bike and

and now you got the bike and of course

you know at 19

i'm guessing you're out of high school

by now right

right working some crummy job that you

normally do i was working on

i had a job at a little place as a

mechanic assembler

putting together parts with screwdrivers

for about i don't know

eight nine bucks an hour and i saved my

money and that's uh

that's how we did it now you're riding

around and

uh how how do you get into the

motorcycle club world what you know

obviously

one of the requirements is you got to

have a motorcycle so you already checked

that one off the list

but now i have to ride the bike around

and you get

uh into that world walk us through that

the area that i grew up in

in san diego was uh was upper class high

upper class

my parents were well off i was raised in

a well-off family but

you know there was something that that

drew me across the tracks i don't know

what it was i kept going to

hanging out with people that weren't as

well off as i was and uh

i decided that i wanted well you know i

wanted to be an outlaw biker so

so we kept going down the beach down to

pacific beach

we run into some hells the angels down

there so

i had kind of made up my mind because i

i i reverted back to my

my six-year-old experience and i kind of

made my mind i wanted to be a hell's

angel

so at 19 i was pretty determined i was

going to be a hell's angel so we kept

going down the beach

where they hung out and it was a bar

called maynards in pacific beach

in san diego county at the time so uh we

ran into some people down there and we

were hanging around these guys you know

we were playing

some red rags out of our pockets and uh

i think i was on my way to doing that

and

ran and had a bad experience out in

front of this bar with some of these

guys

it wasn't the way i wanted to go uh it

was a bad experience with that

that crew of people and i thought well

yeah i'm looking for a brotherhood

and uh and the experience i had i felt

uh

there was no brother and i felt that uh

any time i was gonna get

beat up or uh had some kind of an issue

with these guys so i decided to do

something else and

we hung out by our uh by ourselves and

rode around for a little while

you know so you you were going up to the

beach and everything with a

handful of buddies ears and you know

y'all are all on bikes and everything

beside the hell's angel's way it isn't

the way for you to go

and then obviously the mongols was the

way that you decided to go what got you

first introduced with the club

okay so let me explain so the mongols

growing up where i lived uh in the area

i lived

uh it kind of mattered where you grew up

what area you lived in is kind of how

you went into the bike club i mean the

area that i lived was pretty much

mongol if i would have gone maybe three

four five miles east

i would have been hanging out with more

of a hell's angel group of people

uh to the west would have been some more

hells angels

to the south maybe some more mongols it

was more of a

i think a neighborhood type of thing and

uh the more that

the reason i want to be a hell's angel

more than mongols is

because at the time they were more

renowned the mongols was just coming out

it was more of a it was more of a

neighborhood it was more

a small a small neighborhood bike club i

don't think anybody really took us

very seriously you're talking 79 80 uh

i don't think anybody thought we were a

force to be reckoned with you know i

mean when i got in the club in 1980

we'd go to bars and uh you know we had

to fight our way out

with cowboys i mean the cowboys were

standing up to us we had to find our way

out of bars and uh

we were just you know a small crew

so you know i had some guys out of the

neighborhood some older guys that were

uh

that i were a few years older than i

that went mongol

and once i had a bike and was doing my

own thing word got out i was in the

neighborhood work got out that uh

i was a fighter i love to fight and uh i

could kick a lot of [ __ ]

next thing you know i got these guys

from the neighborhood trying to look me

up and i

went to a new year's party i think it

was a

well it had been new year's uh 1980.

and you also have to think that like now

i mean

people can almost literally make any

contacts on the internet you know

facebook groups

you know they can get in touch but back

then i mean

the whole word of mouth thing and having

to wait till like

word gets back to you about what you can

do and where you can do

what you can do i mean now it's almost

ridiculous i mean you can literally sign

up i think um

on one of the previous podcasts we did

that it's something like about

36 percent of biker gang members in the

united states don't own a motorbike

you know they're almost like associate

members who support the group but don't

have a bike you know

yeah no i agree that's how it's uh

definitely uh

descended into something way different

than uh i started out as

i mean i'm sure way back then you know

we're talking about 1980

you probably never thought that

motorcycle clubs would have websites

hell i mean back then there wasn't even

a website and there was no internet yet

oh yeah you got to remember when i got

in the club in 1980

there wasn't a helmet a lot before you

do it without helmets speed limit was 55

miles an hour

and i remember uh my super glide

was a i think it was a it was a four

speed at 65

that thing was winding so uh you know

55 65 you know i mean

it's just the way it was like you said

there were no cell phones no cameras no

nothing it was a

rotary dial phone to call somebody and

uh

or hooking up at the local bar you know

at a certain time you know what i'm

saying

yeah so kind of stumbling into that

world you you knew hey this is where

these guys hung out

uh if i'm gonna be a part of this i

basically you know i can't send an email

i can't join a facebook group

what i gotta do is i gotta be where

they're at and they've to notice me

and all that good stuff not filling out

some form on the internet

and you know sending in some money and

all of a sudden becoming a member

at this time 1980 you're about 20 years

old or so

you joined the club and then fast

forward about

what eight or so years later you go from

being in the club brand new to the club

world to the national president

in eight years no no no we now you

missed okay

but you missed an important part oh i'm

sure i did so

when uh i first got in the club we had

some serious issues uh

uh with the hell's angels so when i got

in

we were we were outnumbered i mean just

the whole

the whole picture whole thing we were

probably out number 10 to one and then

we were just recovering from uh you know

we two of our brothers got assassinated

in 77 so we were still recovering

as a club from that hit from the hit of

two brothers getting killed i mean you

know what you know

we were more of a party club at the

beginning we were one percenters but

were we

like the hell's angels no once they once

started going down in 77 uh uh our club

got pushed into a corner

and we had to be like them so uh when i

got in uh

in 1980 uh i went from a nice guy uh

to a nasty son of a [ __ ] and that's

what i was that's why

they took me and i i did a lot of damage

well i'm guessing they probably looked

at you as somebody that was going to be

an asset to the club like you said you

you know big guy like to fight all that

type stuff and the need arose for

somebody like that so it was inviting

for them to bring you along

just at the same time it was inviting

for you to go along with it as well

well yeah i was i was the youngest

member in the chapter at the time

probably probably the best fighter in

the whole chapter

uh so i i was like a torpedo i was like

a torp you know

something happened i put my head down

they would fire one and i went right

shot right in the middle of it you know

what i'm saying

yeah that's what i did that's what i

they brought me in for

and i did the best i could at uh that

caused

damage did you do any fighting in your

younger years like

any kind of boxing anything i did or was

this just like a street fight kind of

dude no

i was uh i started out bare knuckle

fighting in uh

when i was in high school we had bare

knuckle tournaments in a in the yard

bare knuckle boxing and then i went into

uh

i went into high school our high school

head up had a boxing team and uh

i went to high school in hawaii for two

years and our hawaii team

hawaiian high school had had a boxing

team uh

with the high school so i i boxed the

amateur amateur golden gloves

and uh what what was your record do you

remember what your record was

yeah i was 3-0 3-0 yes sir

no big surprise there right i was 3-0 uh

but you know that again remember i was

like 17 at the time and uh

uh we were fighting we were going on

base and fighting uh uh soldiers we were

fighting 21

22 23 year old soldiers who we were

fighting from high school

lower the weight the weight match you

know what i'm saying right so

it looking back on those boxing days do

you ever kind of think

man could i have taken that next step

and you know try to make a career out of

boxing or was that just

not something you wanted to do no you

know i like to i like to fight

i didn't mind getting hit i like to

punch people but you know the problem

was i didn't like the training

i didn't like the running i didn't like

the workout i just wanted to go to the

gym and beat people up i

i didn't want to run and i don't want to

run six miles a day you know what i'm

saying

scott do you do you watch mma at all i

do sir

yeah because i i did um like full

contact

mixed martial arts from when i was about

16 through about 20.

and uh it always amazed me because we

were sanctioned by

bodies in the uk but they wouldn't

sanction any official fights with any

money behind it so when mma came along

and it's like yeah all right this is

the stuff we were doing like 25 years

ago just punching the crap out of each

other

kick in with no pads and all this stuff

i was surprised it took that long to

actually get

hold and be sanctioned as a body because

i mean

you know a real fight i mean yeah you

can go back

to you know the boxing classics and all

that but a real fight with no gloves

and almost anything goes that's what a

fight is and

you know i think that's been the

attraction of the mma because that

that's the fight and i did for five

years you know if i got a broken nose

and i was bleeding

you know unless i was kind of giving up

that fight went on until

you know they decided i was going to be

brain dead you know and then so that it

always amazed me why it took

so long for it to get a sanctioned body

so you could actually

have people who knew and white needed to

fight to have this avenue to be able to

go out and do it you know

yeah no i agree you know nowadays geez

you don't you don't want to you don't

want to break off a fight with nobody

nowadays you know

spit around and kick you in the head you

don't even see it coming

you know you pick a fight with a skinny

dude he throws his head on you

you know back in the day when i was

fighting uh the guy that got off first

won oh yeah and you knew once you knew

on site pretty much if you could win

well you know if i was going if i was

going to bar to fight

i already knew who i was going after

right now yeah most of the time they

didn't know who i was going they didn't

know i was coming after them so i gave

me the advantage

made my my record pretty good

oh that's great so uh

so you're doing a lot of fighting

obviously you're enjoying it

it's not like oh hey you know i got to

get in this fight or whatever i got to

beat my way out of this bar you know

secretly kind of in the back of your

mind

let me let me reiterate something about

that is now you got to remember

in 1980 you could go to a bar and kick

some ass and nothing happened i mean

if you didn't get caught on the spot

right

it was just a good time yeah you go to i

mean

uh you can read one of my books and you

can see what happened to me uh

in the later years uh you can't go to a

barn fight no more or they're gonna come

knocking at your door three months later

you know what i'm saying

for the assault charge right well yeah

and

everybody of course quick to call the

cops and everything back then it was

hey we settled this ourselves we settled

it out you know there was no phones

no cell phones no cameras so you know

you beat somebody up

you know you tear the phone cord out the

wall they couldn't call the cops you

leave and everybody forgets about it

but nowadays you didn't like that

yeah well and don't forget about the

part about everybody having that cell

phone on them with the camera

that they're filming it and now that's

automatically evident saying

well yeah you're gonna be on world star

hip-hop within like about 10 minutes if

you start a fight anywhere now

you know i mean it's but it's the thing

like even if

you know even outside of fights i mean

you start getting this kind of

karen patrol where even if you tell

somebody to go away or you

they perceive your route to a clerk in a

convenience store

you're on the internet i mean it's

almost impossible now

to kind of uh i won't say get away with

anything

but you know i mean life's changed to

the point where

it's not sporadic anymore you almost

have to organize something and you all

sign

consent forms to actually be able to do

anything you're right

you know the minute you organize

something if something happens

it puts you in a whole another category

of crime

yeah i don't want to mention the word

organize anymore you know what i'm

saying

yeah yeah exactly uh they they found

ways to uh make things a little more

difficult

yeah thank god uh when i was first

coming in uh

yeah it wasn't that bad you know we were

still uh in 1980 we were still cowboys

and it was still the wild west

it's not like that no more right yeah

and of course

you're still in it in the 80s you know

it wasn't until

i would say like the early 90s before

cell phones were

a thing you know of course in the 80s

they had the cell phone they had the

huge bricks

and it was only the stock traders and

the ultra rich that had them but

there was no flip phone or anything like

that not everybody was carrying those

around so you still had that old school

hey we're going to meet up here this is

our friday night hang out this where

we're going to be

you know hey where do i find junior oh

he's going to be at such and such a

place he's there every friday night and

if you're not there they're like i

wonder where he's at i wonder if he's

okay and there's no way to find out you

know where you're at or whatever

nowadays well there was because as a

chapter

we had a thing we called a check-in so

what we would do

on a weekend is one guy would stay home

uh with a list

and then every time we went somewhere we

would call and

and he would write it down so he knew

where everybody was

if there was an issue everybody would

get called where they were out and sent

and sent to the place but you know you

gotta remember when i got in the club

at first you know i was i caught a case

in january of

82 uh and i went to prison

so i was by i was only an active member

for two years by the

time i'm in prison the funny thing was i

remember when i prospected

these guys brought me into a room and i

was surrounded by my chapter at the time

and it was when i finally decided to

pull the trigger on on prospecting and

uh

i remember one of the brothers he says

you know what the hell you're doing i

said yeah i do he's just you sure this

is what you want to do i said yep

it's what i want to do and he told me he

says you know if you get in this club he

says the chances of you

dying or going to prison

are pretty likely one of those are going

to happen to you

uh as you can see i'm not dead but the

other one did happen to me more than

once

so anyway so 1982

was your your first uh trip to prison

yes sir walk us through that uh what

what sent you to prison

first of all and and walk us through

what that was like prison in

you know the 80s i had a i had the first

game related murder

and uh i went on the run

and uh i was on the run for about six

months i think when that happened and uh

one of our people a real piece of [ __ ]

turned state's evidence

and gave me up on that case i think if

he would have kept his mouth shut i

couldn't i could have

walked on that case so i took a plea

bargain for that

for a voluntary manslaughter and i did

50 months at state prison

on that one you know and i you know i'm

not

i got i got to reiterate you know this

we were at war i mean we were at war

this was a war i'm not

i don't hold any hard hard feelings

towards anybody you know i don't got no

problem with the hell's hands i don't

know problem with anybody

but uh we were a war at war they started

it

we were at war and uh you know i did

what i had to do

and uh when i went to prison now you

just go back to the beginning again

here i was a mongol there was tons of

healthiness in prison

there wasn't no models in the prison so

when we got in there

there was a four of us that went for

counting me that went

on this case we were the underdogs and i

remember

i remember sleeping in the cell on the

main line

and i was uh we were locked down because

we had just got there we were fish and

uh

i remember there were hell's angels

coming up to our cell there was one guy

coming up to my cell

i'm not sure if he was the hell james

laura or hang around kept coming to my

cell and uh

kept taught me telling me uh asked me if

i knew it was going to happen to me when

i

came to the main line if i was okay if i

knew i was going to get killed because i

was going to get kills what he was

telling me

and the funny thing was is i remember i

walked up to that

cell and looked him right in the face

and i said let me tell you something

dude

i said i am a killer i said are you and

he looked in the

eyes and i saw fear and i said and when

this

gate opens i said you're the first one

i'm coming after

you're the first one i'm gonna get and

you know what that guy never came back

to myself

oh imagine that you know otherwise he

never came back

it's with this um like in england like

most of the tribalism in terms of

segregation

you know it's related to football or

soccer over here and

you know back in the 70s and 80s you

know hooliganism

you know in england was pretty rife like

if you went to a game you could expect

to get in a fight on the way back to the

train station

or the parking you know lot whatever and

i mean

you you were always like i'm gonna go to

a game

and there's a good chance i'm gonna get

in a fight on the way back

and that's how it always used to be

you'd go week to week

yeah there's probably a chance i'm

getting a punch-up and

you know i might go get a beer before

the game and be in a place where i'm

outnumbered

32 or whatever and it just became

it was part of the culture at the time

but

i think the difference was you know i

know a lot of people who were involved

in like firms which is

like you know soccer kind of gangs and

stuff

and but the thing is when they went to

prison

and stuff it all kind of softened out a

little bit there wasn't

still that antagonism you know once they

got behind bars it was all

almost like organized as in like you

know when we get out yeah we're arch

enemies but when they were in prison it

kind of softened out a little bit but

it seems like you know your experience

it like it doesn't matter whether you're

in prison or out of prison that kind of

antagonism

just carries in and it makes kind of

like

you carry it for life almost i don't

know well you know it's funny

because you know when i got out of

prison there were some of the people in

the club that

argued and said well you know while

you're in prison

that shouldn't have to that should not

act as a

active time in the club and my argument

to that was what do you mean it's not

active time my argument was

hey dude i couldn't hide i faced some

guys every day in there i represented

who i was

on the yard at the chow hall everywhere

i went the visiting room everybody knew

who i was i represented and you know

what

they came they came at me they tried i'm

still here

i never piece heat up off any yard i

never locked it up off any yard

and i i i walked every yard i've been on

uh with my

with my chest out and everybody knew who

i was

and if they had a problem they could

bring it they can bring it to me now i

don't care if anybody's got a problem

with this interview i'm an easy guy to

find

come see me and i'm sure we can work it

out one way or the other

so you do of that 50-month sentence do

you do all 50 months

yes sir so so you're 50 months in now

now you get out and now where are we at

uh okay so i got out back to san diego

at the time i went back to my parents

house uh

you know it was funny because i didn't

know anybody else here i was

you know i got in the club when i was 19

i kind of lose all my

childhood friends you know i live in

hawaii so i and came back when i was 18

so all my childhood friends pretty much

i didn't wasn't

in contact with anymore so you know

pretty much the mongols and the brothers

were the only

friends i had so uh when i got out

i had a non-association of course so i

got a little job

i learned how to weld in the pan so i

got a little job in the shipyards

welding

and had a non-association for about a

year

and then as soon as my uh

non-association uh

pardon me my parole uh a discharge after

a year

i became a san diego chapter vice

president all right and

so we're we're somewhere around 86 80

i would have been 80 i probably would

have been early 87

late 86 early 87 uh i became a

san diego vice president all right so

now so now you're you're vp

you're back on a bike uh back with your

club brothers and everything

you've got this prison sentence behind

you bad bump in my life

but but now you know i'm just looking

forward i'm moving forward and

take us uh you know up to where you

became you know president

and all that very shortly thereafter

after i was uh the vice president

something happened and uh a crew of them

came down from our mother chapter which

was based out of la

and uh uh they came to me and uh

uh the guy who was national president of

the time me and him

were friends a real i mean not just

brothers but we were friends i mean we

know each other for a long time we spent

some time with each other in oklahoma

and he was national president so he they

came down on a crew and uh

it was actually i think it was my

birthday we were having a birthday party

in san diego and he came down with a

bunch of guys from mother chapter her

big boss did and

brought uh we partied for a couple hours

had a good time and uh

they brought me in a room he brought me

in a room with a couple of guys and says

hey he says

i brought a special christmas or a

birthday present for you

i said okay and uh he says

uh i've got some personal issues going

on right now and i need a little break

that i have to deal with my family and

stuff and uh i want you to take the

national presidency

and i went what you know so you got to

figure i'm 28 years old

they want me to be the national

president uh but

but i don't want to move to l.a i'm

living in san diego

but i can't i don't you got to be

kidding me i said me and and

the guy says under one condition he says

when i want it back he goes you got to

give it back he goes no elections

because you're

it's a democrat at the time the mongols

was a democratic club

you elected your president everybody

voted and that was the way it was

so on this got given to me and the deal

was when he was ready to take it back

i would give it back and uh so it was a

temporary uh

temporary status and my first term as

national president

at 28 years old so the weight of that

though

in being in your late 20s i mean we're

all

obviously well past 20 and you think

when you're in your 20s

you know what you're doing until you get

to your 30s then you realize you don't

and

you think you know in your 30s until you

get to your 40s and so on and so forth

but huge weight on your shoulders as a

you know

late 20s individual spend a couple years

in the

national presidency and i'm guessing

the dude came back and said all right uh

i want it back

yep that's what happened

were you disappointed that he brought it

back did you think maybe he was just

gonna permanently retire or you know

no i was disappointed

it's like a like a freaking hot plate

you know here have it back yeah

noah that's a heavy weight uh you know

and uh you know i always said when i was

national president

and uh i was president four different

terms

uh but uh my my goal as a national

president

was uh if i could keep all my guys out

of jail

and keep all my guys alive for my term

uh

i did my job and uh i kept to that

uh nobody died uh nobody went to prison

but you gotta remember

when i was national president our club

wasn't the size that it

it is now we were a smaller group of

guys so i didn't really have uh

that that much volume to have to deal

with you know what i'm saying

yeah definitely you know back then a

little easier to

a little easier to manage and and all

that good stuff but still a tremendous

responsibility

absolutely i used to take pride in

saying when i was national president

i used to take pride in saying i could

stand up every member

in our club against the wall and call

them all off by name

whoever's national president now i don't

know if they could do that i mean

you know they've got people overseas

they're huge overseas now they're in

they're everywhere i've i lost track of

what's going on

uh but i i don't think he has that type

of a

deal like i had personally with my

members

well and as anything grows it's

obviously a lot harder to

keep track of all those names and

remember everybody and know okay now

where are you from again or are you from

arkansas or are you from

you know ireland uh they were spread all

over the place but

back in those days like you say a little

more tight knit

uh which to be honest with you and one

thing i wanted to ask you i mean that's

one of the most inviting things of

getting into the motorcycle club world

you you share the love for a motorcycle

obviously you gotta have a bike to

to be in the club but what most those

guys are seeking out

is that brotherhood would you say that's

correct

i mean a lot of those guys are talking

about now

back then uh it was a whole different

thing i mean

nobody we didn't have no money uh i was

national pres

president of the mongols uh i didn't

have a salary

i got a couple of breaks here and there

from them guys when i was a boss you

know

uh i think they paid for my phone bill

and uh a couple things like that but i

never got any money

uh from being in that club uh i'm not so

sure that's what's going on now

but in retrospect i look back and

you know i didn't make i didn't make

money i wasn't i wasn't a wealthy

president you know i lived in a

moderate house i drove a moderate

vehicle had a moderate motorcycle and uh

just live moderately you know i was just

uh that's all i did is

i was one i was one of the guys i was a

president but i was one of them which

uh actually uh probably caused my demise

in some issues

why do you think the west coast was more

prolific in terms of birth of

some of the more notorious kind of

groups because you know even

since the 50s you know the west coast

california has been

a case of you know like polar opposites

in terms of you know politically and

economically

why do you think it kind of gave rise on

that west coast i mean

you know almost anywhere in the entire

united states i mean in texas

i mean yeah we can fit six times in the

united kingdom

in texas so if you were in a biker gang

in england

you know you could go see somebody in

half a day if you set off at

seven o'clock in the morning you know

you could go

anywhere in the country by noon like

whereas in the united states it's like

yeah i'll come see it's going to take me

eight days to get there but

do you think that you know some of the

more

leisurely type fight clubs when they

started appearing like in the 40s and

50s

gave way to these kind of clubs which

had

i don't know eventually turned into

gangs because they actually had places

where bikers actually wanted to drive

and so you know that attracted that type

of lifestyle but

you know there i mean there's no big as

far as i know

you know big biker gangs out of rhode

island i mean it's just

but your question is why why is uh

the west coast say california why did it

kind of originate there

in my opinion is that your question yeah

yeah where it came out of there because

i mean okay so it's got such a diverse

population it has been actually like 70

years you know yeah you know actually

i think if you look back in the 60s you

know you had

the free spirit type of thing you know

you had you know you had

you know the manson free spirit

everybody's doing everything

i'm not you know manson was a piece of

junk i'm not saying that but the whole

hippie

i think and another thing about the west

coast is the weather's good i mean you

can ride a motorcycle all year round

so when you're riding a motorcycle all

year round uh you got your hands in the

pudding

all year round versus new york when you

got snow half the year you know what i'm

saying

so i'm thinking maybe it was the weather

it was the free spirit in the 60s where

everybody felt free they just wanted to

express yourself you know and then

you know you had sonny barger and uh you

know in the 60s and uh

and that kind of stuff and um the

concert the rolling stones concert

and i think it was 68 or 69. you know

it's

it's just i think it's just california

had the free spirit

and i think the free spirit just kind of

erupted the free spirit and motor

cycle so that's just my opinion if i if

i try to analyze it i i

no i i think you're on to something

there i mean it texas has a lot of good

riding weather i mean we can almost ride

year-round that

if you're willing to you know throw a

coat on in the

winter time and we get maybe one snow

every three years here

in north texas and we're in the dallas

fort worth area so

at least there's some good ride weather

but it's nothing like california like

you say

you know you know the better the weather

uh the more they're out in the bars

the more they're on the streets and the

more drama so that's my opinion you know

what i'm saying

i mean you know six months out of your

snow that dudes ain't coming out the

house

you can't ride a bike on a on black ice

and they're staying on the

you know they're staying out of the bars

and uh you're not gonna get the uh

the drama or the amount of stuff going

on i don't think

in a place like california or or the

west coast

so moving on kind of getting into

the early 2000s now uh

you're kind of at the end of another

term of being national president and

everything and now

the rise of popularity of the mc

motorcycle world starts to hit

you've got shows and i know you were on

a couple of those shows

outlaw bikers and all that stuff and

people are really getting interested in

it

it goes from something of you know you

being a six-year-old kid

looking out the window at the hell's

angel on the motorcycle and we all knew

they were there

we just didn't really know much about

them to now it's just

in mainstream media forced down your

throat

you've got american chopper they're

building motorcycles you've got sons of

anarchy they're making a tv show about

the world

and as somebody from that world you're

sitting there you got to be scratching

your head saying

wait a second what's going on i just i

want to be

in a biker club and have fun and now

you know it's all over the tv i'm on

national geographic and

old curt sutter out there is writing a

program

and putting this together in kind of

i'm not going to say exposing our world

but throwing it in everybody's faces

of hey this thing's been out there what

were your thoughts about

kind of that portion of the history

there

yeah well in 2000 i was crashing my head

but i was crashing my head in the prison

cell so i went back to the pen

in 98 for another case uh but we'll skip

that for you now and if you want to get

back

if you want to start on the size of the

anarchy thing uh

you know i i watched the show a little

bit uh

a few episodes here and there and uh

that some of it made some of it was a

little accurate but most of it wasn't

like anything with hollywood right they

they gotta hollywood it up

make it seem more interesting glorify

some stuff in there you know for tv

basically

yeah i guess i jumped around on the

timeline in the wrong way

so 98ish is when you went in for the

second time

and of course that's the the infamous

i'll call it

billy queen case well

yeah uh billy queen had just come into

the billy queen had just basically

come into the scene in our club i never

met i never met him i never met him

when i was a president and i never saw

him and he was never around he didn't

come

into the club till after i was gone back

in the pen

so the left the only time i ever saw

billy queen was when uh

he came into court at my bail hearing

i came back to court under on a rid of

habeas corpus from the state pen and he

came into my bail

bail hearing in a three-piece suit all

shaved up to testify uh

that i was national president and that

was a flight risk because i was trying

to get bail on a

on to get out so that's the only time i

really laid eyes on billy queen

and so so you're going back in now this

is going to be your second stretch

right i mean you is your mind going back

to that first stretch like oh

man here we go again i gotta go through

all this again or did you have

no i maybe maybe it was like that but

you know what when you're in that

when you're going back and you're in

that that position you put your mind in

that position

of of the situation you're going to be

in i mean i'm going into this thing

i'm not looking to pass i'm looking

everything straight in the eye and uh

i got to go into mongol mode and i got

to go into uh

i don't give a [ __ ] mode and that's what

i do when i go with the pen i mean

i turn into what i need to be now how

old how old were you that second time

stuff

the second time uh i would have been 96

i would have been 36

all right because i was born your second

sentence then was for how long that was

14 years

so what they did to me on that one was

uh

we were in a bar and uh

we had an issue with the guy in there

and uh

i was with the brother and uh the guy

had some kind of an eye problem

i don't know if we had something in his

eye or if if it was hot or

had some a teardrop in his eyes but

whatever was he kept staring in our

direction

it didn't really bother me but it

bothered the the brother i was with

so uh the brother i was with went to

confront him

about his uh his eye issue and uh

the guy pulled the knife and started

stabbing

at the bro uh i was right there and i

busted a glass uh

on the guy's face and dropped him and uh

and uh that was it that was that story

and so

that that's what you got got you sent up

for the

the 14 years now did you do all of the

14 years

no what happened was now in that case

because i was national president at the

time somehow the guy's knife disappeared

so we said there was a knife uh

everybody the bar said there wasn't

uh the cops said there wasn't uh so

later what we did is uh i took a plea

bargain on that

or i didn't pardon me i didn't think of

the i took it to the box and got the 14

years so later after i did

i did about let's see i did about three

years

in state prison and then i got an

attorney an appellate attorney

we got a detective an investigator and

uh

uh they came up with witnesses that saw

the knife did a

a motion for a new trial because the

knife we had witnesses saw the knife and

saw the incident

just gave me motion from new trial i

came back from prison for a new trial

got granted a rid of habeas and and got

out uh

after three years and uh waited for a

new trial

while you're waiting for the new trial

you're you're treated as basically kind

of like being on bail

so to speak or whatever i got not

association

no third-party contact with the brothers

i can't call nobody

and if i do automatically violate it

gotcha

back to the plan no questions asked okay

so

you go for your new trial what happens

on the new trial

well i never made it to the new trial so

during this time i was out

was actually the time that uh the

incident in lossling happened with the

mongols and hell's angels

my wife at the time wanted to go to that

thing and

i didn't want to go i said it's not a

good idea like i said i had an n a and

uh

we thought about going but we stayed

home and missed that lawson thing and uh

thank god i i missed that one or i

probably would have been caught up in

that

right in the middle of that too you know

what i'm saying yeah that's how that

went

so you served the three years of that

sentence and then

uh never had to go back oh

that would happen was i went to uh me

and my wife at the time

we went to a a bar in long beach

and there were some brothers uh at the

bar and like i said i had no association

i told my wife i said well let's just go

i go i see they're over there they

didn't see me i wasn't wearing a patch

at the time and i had pulled in the

parking lot and i'd seen them over there

i said let's just go i don't want to

issue

she goes well let's just go to the

opposite end of this place

and have a drink so i said all right

so we parked the bike and i kind of went

around the outside

hoping nobody saw me and we ordered up a

drink and i had my back to the brothers

and uh

all of a sudden a brother comes up and

says

hey junior remember me and i turn around

and now i got one at the table

and he asked me if i come over for a

drink and uh

i said one drink and i gotta go i went

over the table and had a drink and we

left that was on a sunday

and then on monday my attorney called me

into court

saying they were ready to make a deal

before the new trial i was hoping to get

a deal and get time

served just get discharged with a stupid

thing and uh

but when i got there they had more they

had a little surprise for me they had a

photo

of me at the bar with these guys they

revolt everything

put me back in the pen uh i played for

another deal i got 60 i took six years

on the deal

i had to go back for another three so

now you get out after those six years

and obviously not six years together you

had the three then another three

and you get out and what's going through

your mind now you know i'm on parole i

had a couple of issues with uh

the guy that was now in charge at the

time i had a couple issues that was doc

cavazos uh

when i got out he was a national

president at the time and i had some

issues with the guy

i didn't think the guy was straight up i

thought the guy was full of crap

well i never i didn't have a problem

letting him know about it

don't mean him had some issues and uh at

the time i was

i was on parole so i stayed away from

the club and and i just worked and uh

i did a i did a three year parole on

that and then after i

got off parole me and my wife went ahead

and moved to salt lake city

my new wife at the time moved to salt

lake city now scott when

when you went back in prison each time

um

was it easier in terms of you know

having maybe

a little bit of a reputation because you

know two i've got five

brothers right and two of them have

spent probably more time in prison than

they have out of prison

but when when you went back in was it

easier

when you went back in in terms of people

knowing all right just leave him alone

no my reputation had preceded me i mean

i was okay

i had some issues when i hit the yard

when i first got back but uh

when i got when i had to go back for the

the second three

he finished it i had some issues when i

went back uh but i confronted them you

know

the thing is you got to confront them i

felt like this you know

if you got an issue with me i'm just

going to confront the problem before

they had enough time to

to get a crew where they could catch me

slipping if it was one guy

hell's angel in the yard the day i got

there i confronted him with

within 10 minutes when i hit the yard i

was on him

what's going on let's do it let's do it

or let's we can't get along let's get it

on that was my attitude

right yeah literally just face that

problem head-on get it over with so we

can move on down the road and

that's right i mean i mean let's do it

right now i mean if

if one of us is going to the hall we're

both going to hold let's do it

i'm not going to wait and worry about it

i didn't worry about nothing anyway i

still don't but

but you know what face it head on let's

let's get it on

let's get it over with or uh let's shake

hands and uh

do our own thing now you're out

and uh where did your life go from there

do you feel like you want to go back to

the club do you think you know i've got

to put all this stuff behind me

no like i said i was having some issues

with with uh

uh i wasn't really digging what was

going on you got to remember now i'm a

i was a president that

i was one of the guys i mean when we

went to a bar

i was the first one in i was the last

one out if there was a fish fight

i was right in the freaking middle of it

and i was the president you know now you

got into a world

later on of national presidents that

never came out of the house

that uh were armchair quarterbacks you

know what i'm saying i never did that i

had to play in the game i had to throw

the football when i was out there

and i think that's why when uh our club

was only 250 members and i was the

president

i think we were more respected and more

feared than we are now

because uh everybody knew what i'd do

i'd lead him right into i'd lead him to

whatever you know

back in the day like i said i was the

first one

last one out which it ain't like that no

more right

so you go through all this in your life

and something comes along

in your mind and says i'm going to write

a book

so what was that thing that

triggered mine saying man you know what

i'm going to write a book

okay so on my on the end of my second

term on the three years before i got out

on the end of it

uh it was my parole day and i don't want

to get too much into this because this

is

in my second book but it was my parole

day

and i went to discharge and i had my

dress outs on

got to the gate and at the last minute

they told me they told me i owed them

four more months

so i literally was dressed out at the

gate with my bag

when they turned me around sent me back

in for four months in the state pan

as you can probably figure the day

you're getting out

and they tell you you got four more

months it's pretty devastating

uh you don't know if you're angry you

don't know

what kind of feelings you're feeling you

know you don't know if you want to

rip someone's face off or you just want

to sleep or you know what you want to do

it's just you know it's the biggest fear

of i think of any

inmate or convict they're gonna do that

to you

and it happened to me so uh here i am

the day i get out

i got four more months left they slapped

out on me so i'm walking the yard

and i'm telling these guys can't believe

it i'm walking with some friends and

they're going they can't believe what

happened to me they're going man they go

this is crazy

one guy says do you ever think about

writing a book

and i said uh yeah what you got to write

a book about all that that happened to

you about your life in this

four months you got to do again so i

started writing a book

i sat in the day room that last that

extra four months i had to do and i

i used a golf pencil on a freaking uh

legal pad a yellow legal pad and i wrote

with that golf pencil

every day on that four months and when i

got out for that four months

i had about three quarters of a book

done now did you find that

therapeutic or was it more of a i just

want to say what i've been through

because you you get a lot of writers

and they're some of it it's like

exercising their demons i mean

you know this shepherd max you know he

had a trilogy of books and

that's just because he can write in his

inventive you know i had books which

were children's stories and it wasn't

until about

30 years later i kind of saw the pattern

in some of the stuff i was writing

and i was actually trying to get some of

the things i couldn't express

out off my chest now were you doing it

as like a therapy or you just thought

kind of

you know i just want to tell my story no

so this is kind of interesting

i'm glad you asked me this uh actually

it was therapeutic i was looking for

something to

pass time you know i was always good i

could write

poems like i was always good at telling

a story i could always paint a picture

with words where people saw

always i could do that and i actually

had a hustle

when i was in the pen i would write

poetry

for guys to send to their wives yeah

yeah and uh

and i would make money doing that uh so

it was

pretty much therapeutic so it was more

like memoirs i was just

writing and i started at as far as i

could remember and started

stair-stepping trying to do whatever and

then

uh so i got about a chapter

written in this thing and i and i was

living in a dorm i was a level

two at the time i was dorm living in the

pen and everybody reads i mean if you

can get a book

in the pen a good book i mean you got

stephen king

james patterson books uh dean koontz if

you can get your hands on one of those

it's a score okay it's hard to get good

books the good books are hard to find

there's a waiting list to get them in

the pen so i wrote this so what happened

was somebody's reading guys

i would throw a chapter of my book at

these guys hey

what do you think of this so one guy

read the book read the chapter

and then he gave it to another guy read

a chapter

then they brought me back the chapter

then by next friday

those two guys were at the end of my

book and they said hey dude you got

another chapter done yet

and i said i do so those guys who had

the second chapter

they passed it on by the end of the

third week there were four guys at the

end of my bunk going hey dude you done

with another chapter yet

and uh these guys were avid readers and

i was drawing their attention they're

going dude you got something here i said

you think so they said you got some

now did that surprise you in terms of

because you know a lot of writers

actually famous writers they don't

start until a later age there's very few

you know either prolific or famous

writers who start when they're like 15

or 18

a lot of it comes from the language did

it kind of surprise you that

oh my goodness this is an outlet for me

to

you know just express myself and you

know what there's other people who

relate to this

and i've got an audience because no i

didn't really surprise you because i

i'm the type of guy that can accomplish

anything i set my mind to

you know everybody says you know there's

an old saying hey if you want to make

money

go to prison and write a book you know

what i'm saying that wasn't my intent it

just ended up

it ended up that way and i made some

money off of it a little bit here and

there you know

so you know we got out i got out the pen

and i had this book uh

about three quarters of the weight done

the first the first edition

uh the very first first book and uh

cavazos somehow got word that i had

written a book

so he published one and put it on the

market before i did

and it got picked up by uh i'm not sure

it was simon

schuster random house picked it up and

uh

it flopped the book flopped they didn't

get cells on it

so when mine got done i tried to get

someone to publish it

and they wouldn't touch it they said

well you know somebody contacted me i

think it was simon schuster contacted me

and said

you know we just did a book a mongol

book it didn't do well

we're just gonna we don't think there's

a lot of market right now for that

uh so we're gonna pass on it so i kind

of sat on that thing for

for a couple of years and then uh one

year for christmas

behind my back without me knowing my

wife and took my memoirs

to a publisher and got one single hard

copy

published in my book and gave it to me

for christmas

and then once i saw the one book when i

actually sought my hand

you know when i actually saw the book in

my hand

i realized this is real so we've decided

to publish ourselves and uh

uh it took off and it's doing really

well you know i found that

when i write a book well my books are

true my i

know i think people like like the story

they like to hear what i went through

and uh

what it's like to be uh who i was

you finish up the first book the wife

puts it in it and

trust me junior i i know that feeling

you know when

you actually are holding that in your

hand and you look at it like man

it's freaking real

it's it's different than the the legal

pad and all pencil and all that stuff

but

holding that book in in your hand yeah

it's a good feeling so you're looking at

that book

and obviously you know you've written

two

so what brought you to say you know what

i got to go ahead

and do this again you know because i i

know back from my days when i wrote the

books and everything you write a book

and you're like man

i'm happy that i have this book i'm

holding it in my hand but i'm kind of

glad this is over because

it's not the easiest thing in the world

that you well know

i mean you can validate i'm sure you can

validate your partner from validate

writing the book ain't easy it's hard

his heart shut down i mean

you gotta sit down every day you gotta

set some time aside every day

and you got to remember or you got to

follow your lines your your

your your outlines of the butt then

that's just part of it you got to get it

edited you got to get it

you know kindle you got it it's it's a

you know it takes a it takes about a

year to get this thing from beginning to

end

and uh it's not an easy thing to do to

write a book

i know you you know exactly what i'm

talking about max

so so you finish up book two you got it

out so now

now you got two books under your belt

other than that

what's been going on with you recently i

mean tell us

tell us about junior in the present day

okay well

let me go back a little bit so i went to

uh uh after the cabana after i

discharged uh

my parole in 2007 uh and the problem i

have with cabazos

i pretty much decided hey you know what

i'm done i'm done with the club i need

to just move somewhere and start fresh

you know i had a friend in salt lake

city that i'd grown up with

his name's kurt curtis and in my first

book at the beginning

uh you might remember that me and kurt

were at the lake fishing

but when this whole thing started but so

kurt was out there in salt lake and had

become a

project manager of a big company and i

went out there to weld so i moved out

there in 2007 in salt lake

and then by 2008 the club they had

arrested

the club had got a rico cavazos was gone

it was under new leadership

so i would i mean i still really wasn't

interested in really going back active

you know i just discharged my parole and

then um

you know one day i just got a little

fire in my belt and

put on my patch went down to a local bar

down there in uh

in salt lake city and uh in a little

town called magna

and uh one thing led to another next you

know we had five freaking chapters i

think it was seven chapters in salt lake

city within two years

wow well i kicked that off and then as

of today they

some of the chapters had filtered that's

filtered into idaho so i

i started salt lake city and then i was

uh back up in the club again

now i was uh uh in mother chapter but i

was a nomad out of mother chapter and

saul

got that and as so as of today i'm

retired

i got a little job i i'm a manager

shipping and receiving at a

at a casino and uh my office overlooks

the river and uh

things that things are good that's good

when when you when you got your

job that you're doing now that did

people kind of

come up to you and say hey man tell me

some stories all that

do you get any of that they didn't know

nobody really

was putting two to two together i don't

think when i took the job

it was funny because just about a month

ago i had a couple

a couple painters that worked for the

facilities we're looking through my well

office window looking at me and i

i know who they are we talk all the time

they're looking at me and

then i opens the door and puts a camera

in the door and

the picture on the camera was from that

geo and they had saw the show they go

hey is this you

and i said i said i guess you guys found

me

i've been at the company for eight years

and nobody had ever said nothing

so now they're just starting to click on

this tv show that was filmed in 2007 on

that geo

people are thank you go dude what are

you doing here i said hey i said i'm

just a normal guy you know

you know with uh what i my job at the

casino and the

the the the money the little bit of

money i get from the books we

we do okay you know my wife okay now

now scott why do you think there's not

been a great

translation from i guess books to

movies in the same way as like maybe

cars because you mean you take you know

successful franchises like the fast and

the furious and there's

always been like years and years of like

these great car movies but

you know there's not really been that

many great biking movies i mean it's the

same thing with sports i mean you take

something like soccer right it's the

most played sport in the world

every country plays it but the movies

are always crap

right you take football you know there's

some good movies there's some good

basketball movies there's

almost no good ice hockey movies but you

know we're biking i mean there hasn't

really been

that many good movies out there across

decades compared to

like i said with the whole kind of car

thing what do you think that is that

i just don't think there's a calling

there's that many people interested uh

in the bike world is i think it's kind

of a fading thing i think uh uh uh

bikes have gone to more of a a wealthy

group of people

right maybe when the sons of anarchy

was out uh would have been a good time

to come out with a a movie i think

when everything was up everybody was

falling so anarchy but

the whole vibe of motorcycles have

changed from when i got in you know when

i got in in

the 1980s it was dirty levi's nobody had

new bikes

i mean the only bikes we had we put

together you know i borrowed a motor

from my bike my first bike was new but

but after that

i had used bikes we built them we traded

parts

and i just don't know if there's a

market now for the outlaw

i don't know i classify maybe like a

western you don't see westerns on uh

on the big screen much yeah i think it's

more about

i think about being uncomfortable i mean

a lot of people

you know think all right yeah i could

get behind the wheel of a sports car

and drive it fast and stuff put

themselves in those positions but i

think

people realized very early on when when

you were talking about

when you were first attracted you know

biking and stuff

i think i've made my mind up by age six

that yeah i don't want to go on a

motorbike it's not for me

and i think a lot of people come to that

decision pretty early on

you know and it's it kind of separates

out i don't think

you know outside of the middle class

riders who you know you get the whole

kind of wild hogs type

you know audience who go out there i

think most people decide at an early age

it's either for them or not for them

whereas the car

it's like it's inevitable you're going

to be driving a car at some point

with a bike that has to be a decision i

think i agree i agree with you right

there you know

like when i got in the club i wanted to

be an owl

i wanted to be a i wanted to be a badass

dude that's what i wanted to be and i

i practiced it uh i learned it

and i taught it and and i and uh and i'm

a badass and

and uh i'm an old badass uh my

my days are done i'm an old cowboy i'm

retired but

uh i did it i i walked it

i i talked it and i lived it i'm sure

and i'm still here to talk about it so

that's

that's gotta be worth something yeah and

kind of going back to

one of those things that was told you a

long time ago yeah

you get out by either going to prison

or you die and you you did one of those

two

but at least you're here to live the

tale so it's kind of ironic the guy that

uh

told me that is dead so it happened

what happened to him and what happened

to me so yeah so do you still ride today

i do sir yeah what what are you riding

these days

i got me a an old five road king

carburetor

nice carbureted road king

everything's good man we're doing me and

my wife are doing well

that's great that's great so junior as

we close

uh can you tell everybody where they can

find the books where they can find more

information about you

and all that good stuff okay volume

one volume two lead volume one first

you're gonna love them the real deal

no bs this is how it went down this is

how i wrote it

get them on amazon or you can get on my

website scottjuniorerickson.com

you get them off the website i'll

autograph it cool

buy these books they're great buy max's

books they're great

by the wolf's books they're great and

you know what everybody have a happy new

year

it's good it's been a pleasure having

you on man yeah thank you very much

junior uh

certainly appreciate you taking the time

out of your day

and here we are 2021 uh

january 1 to take some time out of your

day and spend that with us

we're just kind of hoping that things

can't get worse is not

happening i don't think they wolf i

don't think they can man i

i'm looking forward to be better when

you're at the bottom you got to go to

the top

right we hope so but you know there you

go

there you go well all your information

is going to be tagged along with the

show notes and everything on this once

again junior we certainly appreciate you

joining us for this

you got it max i'll see you soon buddy

thank you thank you sir